Devuan bug report logs - #904
coreutils: key package depends on libsystemd

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

Source: coreutils
Version: 9.7-1
Severity: normal

Dear Devuan developers,

Since 9.7-1 and including 9.7-3, coreutils has depended on libsystemd.
This was added under pressure as part of https://bugs.debian.org/1080330
and discussions in debian-devel to enable 'who' to obtain current
longed-in user information from the seat manager, e.g. elogind, instead
of /run/utmp.

The Devuan project should consider if it wishes to fork this package to
avoid making every Excalibur installation necessarily include
libsystemd when it might not othewise have needed to do so

In #900 on Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 11:10:45AM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2025 at 09:06:10PM +0100, Andrew Bower wrote:
> > > I believe the original impetus to remove libsystemd linkage from procps 
> > > was to reduce libsystemd infiltration into 'core' utilities. 
> > 
> > I am all in favour of that ambition. I don't think the key
> > building-block packages should depend on libsystemd, hence my
> > disappointment when coreutils recently gained the dependency (should we
> > be forking that?)
> 
> Hmmm, yes, conceivably.

Raising a bug...

Andrew

-- System Information:
Distributor ID: Devuan
Description:  Devuan GNU/Linux 6 (excalibur/ceres)
Release:  6
Codename: excalibur ceres
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 6.12.37+deb13-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU threads; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=en_GB:en
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash
Init: runit (via /run/runit.stopit)
LSM: AppArmor: enabled

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Message #10 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

Andrew,

On Tue, Aug 12, 2025 at 11:00:51PM +0100, Andrew Bower wrote:
> > Hmmm, yes, conceivably.
> 
> Raising a bug...

Thanks.

I am pretty conflicted here. To me the real downside is that Debian's coreutils
has over 450[1] bugs. If we fork the package, in effect we inherit
responsibility for fixing them. That is pretty unattractive with the current
person-power available.

Needs more thought....

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=coreutils

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Message #15 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Am Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 04:19:43PM +0100 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> I am pretty conflicted here. To me the real downside is that Debian's coreutils
> has over 450[1] bugs. If we fork the package, in effect we inherit
> responsibility for fixing them. That is pretty unattractive with the current
> person-power available.

Would we really need to fix bugs which are also present in Debian package.
As long as they are not fixed there, we're not worse than the Debian
version.

For me this dependency is very questionable too.

cheers,
Andreas

-- 
gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51
fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51

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Message #20 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 05:39:50PM +0200, Andreas Messer wrote:
> Would we really need to fix bugs which are also present in Debian package.
> As long as they are not fixed there, we're not worse than the Debian
> version.

True, but it is a measure that the package is in poor state that so many bugs
exist and expected Debian fixes seem optimistic.

> For me this dependency is very questionable too.

Yes, and for me.

I am having a quick look how easy it might be. There is no Debian VCS
repository, which is also unhelpful. Having to resort to gbp-import-dsc.

Mark

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Message #25 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Am Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 05:03:28PM +0100 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> I am having a quick look how easy it might be. There is no Debian VCS
> repository, which is also unhelpful. Having to resort to gbp-import-dsc.

I volunteer to maintain this package, if needed. However, I can not 
guarantee a "reaction time" when a new version is available since it
happens that I'm always busy with many different things which might 
be more important to me at the time.

cheers,
Andreas

-- 
gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51
fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51

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Message #30 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

Andreas,

On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 06:13:07PM +0200, Andreas Messer wrote:
> I volunteer to maintain this package, if needed.

Thanks. I have assigned it to Devuan Developers so anybody is welcome to
contribute.

I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for
experimental.

Can you both test?

Thanks

Mark

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Message #35 received at 904-done@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

Version: 9.7-3devuan1

Source package coreutils (9.7-3devuan1) added to Devuan suite experimental.

This closes bug report 904.

Thanks

DAK managing the Devuan archive

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:14:27 +0100
Source: coreutils
Architecture: source
Version: 9.7-3devuan1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Devuan Developers <devuan-dev@lists.dyne.org>
Changed-By: Mark Hindley <mark@hindley.org.uk>
Closes: 904
Changes:
 coreutils (9.7-3devuan1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fork for Devuan.
   * Build without experimental upstream systemd support. (Closes: #904)
Checksums-Sha1:
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 6f0a0b3be0e5f9683548d35b438fa5adeda59b15 14892532 coreutils_9.7.orig.tar.gz
 0f4b42273cd0fc6889ef266d95b6976cd738b6ac 26936 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.debian.tar.xz
 de769245943baa7b8fbc32ca3776266c92cf863d 5594 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1_source.buildinfo
Checksums-Sha256:
 ad7387cf4b3b99f9fe8b48fa362c519a3ae59078faa310a2bb5dea860ee60086 1727 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.dsc
 e9c6d72a0399fecb7d234339d1789ed238e7d27b9bd4e9a980acb37a8f9417b3 14892532 coreutils_9.7.orig.tar.gz
 c37e09dcbaf982e659dac7f5cb0b0ac3cfcd71c45a385e4d1ca6b89d022a807c 26936 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.debian.tar.xz
 6cc58d3d0dbe0399a207c578802872f65386ce6b7b086ed0bb210b6778815470 5594 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1_source.buildinfo
Files:
 43c768d7e9dc2026ea1fd22c678e541b 1727 utils required coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.dsc
 a0b3298ebe4ca8130a5f75091e12cf15 14892532 utils required coreutils_9.7.orig.tar.gz
 0f82e245efcf5097d705a61fe656a51b 26936 utils required coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.debian.tar.xz
 edc529424990b6174dedacc7663e217a 5594 utils required coreutils_9.7-3devuan1_source.buildinfo

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Message #40 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Am Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 05:32:23PM +0100 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> Thanks. I have assigned it to Devuan Developers so anybody is welcome to
> contribute.
> 
> I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for
> experimental.
> 
> Can you both test?

Thanks! I will go for it during the weekend, planning to update to
excalibur anways.

cheers,
Andreas

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Message #45 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 05:32:23PM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 06:13:07PM +0200, Andreas Messer wrote:
> > I volunteer to maintain this package, if needed.
> 
> Thanks. I have assigned it to Devuan Developers so anybody is welcome to
> contribute.
> 
> I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for
> experimental.

Thank you!

> Can you both test?

The new package generally works for me! (And the 'who' command behaves
as expected in the circumstances.)

Might be worth checking that it is actually possible to install a
libsystemd-free system now - I haven't done that.

I should say that the fact that I raised this bug doesn't mean I
definitely think this should happen - I think Devuan Developers have
more experience than I to make this call!

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Message #50 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 10:08:52PM +0100, Andrew Bower wrote:
> I should say that the fact that I raised this bug doesn't mean I
> definitely think this should happen - I think Devuan Developers have
> more experience than I to make this call!

I am happy to try. Certainly Debian's coreutils looks poorly maintained. I have
had a quick look through the open bugs. Many may not be current.

I will deal with a few easy d/control aspects and upload to unstable with a view
to including in excalibur if we don't run into new problems.

Mark

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Message #55 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

On Sat, Aug 16, 2025 at 07:13:42PM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 10:08:52PM +0100, Andrew Bower wrote:
> > I should say that the fact that I raised this bug doesn't mean I
> > definitely think this should happen - I think Devuan Developers have
> > more experience than I to make this call!
> 
> I am happy to try. Certainly Debian's coreutils looks poorly maintained. I have
> had a quick look through the open bugs. Many may not be current.

Hmm, the recent bug creation rate looks suspiciously like someone was
trying to find bugs to 'prove' that the Rust version was better than the
GNU C version, or something like that. Perhaps a new test suite was
targetted at it. I'm not sure that it would be entirely fair to blame
the Debian packaging for that.

That's not to say the bug reports aren't fair and due attention.

> I will deal with a few easy d/control aspects and upload to unstable with a view
> to including in excalibur if we don't run into new problems.

I must admit I didn't spot any packaging-specific issue because of the
amount of the above type!

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Message #60 received at 904@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Mark,

Am Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 05:32:23PM +0100 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for
> experimental.
> 
> Can you both test?

I upgraded to excalibur today, worked flawlesly despite
mate-power-manager was uninstalled and not upgraded. (Just writing 
E-Mail from this machine). I have now installed coreutils 
9.7-3devuan2 and did not observe any issues so far.

cheers,
Andreas

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