Devuan bug report logs - #481
gparted-1.0.0-0.1 comes with dependencies for systemd components

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Message #5 received at submit@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

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Package: gparted
Version: 1.0.0-0.1
Severity: normal

Currently I have gparted-0.32.0-2 installed. With the upgrade today to
version 1.0.0-0.1 the package depend to policykit-1 and
libpam-systemd:i386.

This are unacceptable dependencies.

Please remove them.

Sidenote: As I use prevent-policykit and prevent-systemd-completely,
that prevented me from a broken system.

-- System Information:
Distributor ID:	Devuan
Description:	Devuan GNU/Linux 4 (chimaera/ceres)
Release:	unstable
Codename:	sid
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 5.6.7 (SMP w/8 CPU cores)
Kernel taint flags: TAINT_PROPRIETARY_MODULE, TAINT_FIRMWARE_WORKAROUND, TAINT_OOT_MODULE
Locale: LANG=de_DE, LC_CTYPE=de_DE (charmap=ISO-8859-1), LANGUAGE=de_DE:en (charmap=ISO-8859-1)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: sysvinit (via /sbin/init)

Versions of packages gparted depends on:
ii  libatkmm-1.6-1v5      2.28.0-2
ii  libc6                 2.30-8
ii  libgcc-s1 [libgcc1]   10.1.0-3
ii  libglib2.0-0          2.64.3-1
ii  libglibmm-2.4-1v5     2.64.2-1
ii  libgtk2.0-0           2.24.32-4
ii  libgtkmm-2.4-1v5      1:2.24.5-4
ii  libpangomm-1.4-1v5    2.42.1-1
ii  libparted-fs-resize0  3.3-4
ii  libparted2            3.3-4
ii  libsigc++-2.0-0v5     2.10.2-1
ii  libstdc++6            10.1.0-3
ii  libuuid1              2.35.2-2+devuan1

gparted recommends no packages.

Versions of packages gparted suggests:
pn  dmraid         <none>
ii  dmsetup        2:1.02.167-1+b1
ii  dosfstools     4.1-2
ii  e2fsprogs      1.45.6-1
ii  gpart          1:0.3-8
pn  jfsutils       <none>
ii  kpartx         0.8.3-1
ii  mtools         4.0.24-1
pn  ntfs-3g        <none>
pn  reiser4progs   <none>
pn  reiserfsprogs  <none>
ii  udftools       2.2-1
ii  xfsprogs       5.6.0-1+b2
pn  yelp           <none>

-- no debconf information
Gruß
   Klaus
-- 
Klaus Ethgen                                       http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16            Klaus Ethgen <Klaus@Ethgen.ch>
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C

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Message #8 received at 481@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

Klaus,

On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 09:08:02 +0100 Klaus Ethgen <Klaus@Ethgen.de> wrote:
> Package: gparted
> Version: 1.0.0-0.1
> Severity: normal
> 
> Currently I have gparted-0.32.0-2 installed. With the upgrade today to
> version 1.0.0-0.1 the package depend to policykit-1 and
> libpam-systemd:i386.
> 
> This are unacceptable dependencies.

You are right in that libpam-systemd doesn't exist in Devuan. It is a banned
package.

However, Devuan has libpam-elogind which provides libpam-systemd so that
dependencies like this work.

I don't see a problem here, or have I misunderstood you?

Mark

Message #13 received at 481@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 11:16:43AM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> > However, Devuan has libpam-elogind which provides libpam-systemd so that
> > dependencies like this work.
> 
> Well, first it is not only systemd than also policykit.
> 
> But I tried to install libpam-elogind which tried to remove the safety
> package prevent-systemd-completely due to libpam-systemd.

I don't know what the prevent-systemd-completely package you refer to is or
where it came from. It isn't part of Devuan.

PID1 systemd is removed from Devuan already; you don't need to do anything else.

> I do not get it why I would need a additional daemon that I don't use
> and don't want.

Well you were trying to install gparted and that does require logind
functionality so you do want it and would use it, if only indirectly.

If you want to avoid that you could consider using one of the command line
partitioners like parted, fdisk....

> Back to the policykit dependency. That would pull all that unneeded and
> unwanted pöttering-Kits like consolekit and (as shown) policykit. I will
> not allow such stuff on my system. They address problems that would not
> exists without pötterware.

Yes policykit requires either consolekit or elogind. Devuan has no plans or
reason to remove policykit, consolekit or elogind dependencies from
packages. Although, again, you are free to choose what to install. It is
certainly possible to use Devuan Beowulf without policykit, consolekit or
elogind, but you will need to choose your packages carefully and gparted is not
currently one of them.

Best wishes

Mark

Message #18 received at 481@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Mark,

Am Mi den  3. Jun 2020 um 11:37 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 11:16:43AM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> > > However, Devuan has libpam-elogind which provides libpam-systemd so that
> > > dependencies like this work.
> > 
> > Well, first it is not only systemd than also policykit.
> > 
> > But I tried to install libpam-elogind which tried to remove the safety
> > package prevent-systemd-completely due to libpam-systemd.
> 
> I don't know what the prevent-systemd-completely package you refer to is or
> where it came from. It isn't part of Devuan.

No, it is part of the WTF-Repo https://www.mirbsd.org/~tg/Debs/ (It is
made by Axel Beckert)

> PID1 systemd is removed from Devuan already; you don't need to do anything else.

Thanks.

> > I do not get it why I would need a additional daemon that I don't use
> > and don't want.
> 
> Well you were trying to install gparted and that does require logind
> functionality so you do want it and would use it, if only indirectly.

Thats exactly the problem, it doesn't. That is a weak dependency that
should at most be recommended. That how it worked with earlier versions
too. That dependency for logind is just artefactual and not really
needed.

> If you want to avoid that you could consider using one of the command line
> partitioners like parted, fdisk....

Yes, yes, thats how I use it most of the time. However...

Let me express something else about elogind and the library replacement
for libsystemd. On one hand I like it. But it did put the library to
/usr leaving my system unbootable. I had to recover it with grml.

Regards
   Klaus
-- 
Klaus Ethgen                                       http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16            Klaus Ethgen <Klaus@Ethgen.ch>
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C

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Message #23 received at 481@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

Control: tags -1 debian

On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 12:44:06PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> > Well you were trying to install gparted and that does require logind
> > functionality so you do want it and would use it, if only indirectly.
> 
> Thats exactly the problem, it doesn't. That is a weak dependency that
> should at most be recommended. That how it worked with earlier versions
> too. That dependency for logind is just artefactual and not really
> needed.

OK. That is fine. I understand better. However, gparted is not a forked package
and Devuan uses Debian's packages directly. If you want them to reconsider that
decision, please would report the issue directly to Debian's BTS.

> > If you want to avoid that you could consider using one of the command line
> > partitioners like parted, fdisk....
> 
> Yes, yes, thats how I use it most of the time. However...
> 
> Let me express something else about elogind and the library replacement
> for libsystemd. On one hand I like it. But it did put the library to
> /usr leaving my system unbootable. I had to recover it with grml.

Could you submit a new report for that against libelogind0, please?

Thanks.

Mark

Message #30 received at 481@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi Mark,

Am Mi den  3. Jun 2020 um 12:53 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 12:44:06PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> > > Well you were trying to install gparted and that does require logind
> > > functionality so you do want it and would use it, if only indirectly.
> > 
> > Thats exactly the problem, it doesn't. That is a weak dependency that
> > should at most be recommended. That how it worked with earlier versions
> > too. That dependency for logind is just artefactual and not really
> > needed.
> 
> OK. That is fine. I understand better. However, gparted is not a forked package
> and Devuan uses Debian's packages directly. If you want them to reconsider that
> decision, please would report the issue directly to Debian's BTS.

That is exactly the problem. Debian is not willing to fix that
dependencies. I had that with many packages right now (libvirt for
example where I rebuild my own package without that poison
dependencies). I assume that they add this dependencies fully
intentional to force systemd more widely.

Keep in mind that it is still possible to drive a debian system without
systemd. But this dependencies makes it hard and harder to do so. There
are people in Debian that I know of (namely Michael Biebl, but not the
only one) who try to do everything that is possible to drop
compatibility with other init systems.

> Could you submit a new report for that against libelogind0, please?

Already done.

Regards
   Klaus
-- 
Klaus Ethgen                                       http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16            Klaus Ethgen <Klaus@Ethgen.ch>
Fingerprint: 85D4 CA42 952C 949B 1753  62B3 79D0 B06F 4E20 AF1C

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Message #35 received at 481@bugs.devuan.org (full text, mbox, reply):

On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 01:09:30PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Am Mi den  3. Jun 2020 um 12:53 schrieb Mark Hindley:
> > On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 12:44:06PM +0100, Klaus Ethgen wrote:
> > > > Well you were trying to install gparted and that does require logind
> > > > functionality so you do want it and would use it, if only indirectly.
> > > 
> > > Thats exactly the problem, it doesn't. That is a weak dependency that
> > > should at most be recommended. That how it worked with earlier versions
> > > too. That dependency for logind is just artefactual and not really
> > > needed.
> > 
> > OK. That is fine. I understand better. However, gparted is not a forked package
> > and Devuan uses Debian's packages directly. If you want them to reconsider that
> > decision, please would report the issue directly to Debian's BTS.
> 
> That is exactly the problem. Debian is not willing to fix that
> dependencies.

I appreciate and understand your frustration. However, have you asked and been
refused in this particular case? I notice that Unit193 added the policykit-1
dependency[1]. He is definitely a friend of Devuan and is regularly on
#devuan-dev. I wouldn't expect him to dismiss the request out of hand.

> I had that with many packages right now (libvirt for
> example where I rebuild my own package without that poison
> dependencies). I assume that they add this dependencies fully
> intentional to force systemd more widely.
> 
> Keep in mind that it is still possible to drive a debian system without
> systemd. But this dependencies makes it hard and harder to do so.

That is exactly why I think this would be best fixed in Debian. Everybody
benefits that way. In particular, nonsystemd PID1 in Debian remains
viable. Devuan needs that to continue to be the case.

Best wishes

Mark

[1]  https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gparted/changelog-1.0.0-0.1

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