From unknown Thu Mar 28 10:08:06 2024 Received: (at 500) by bugs.devuan.org; 30 Jul 2020 09:30:12 +0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: devuanbugs@dyne.org Received: from tupac3.dyne.org [195.169.149.119] by doc.devuan.org with IMAP (fetchmail-6.4.0.beta4) for (single-drop); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:30:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.hindley.org.uk (mohindley.plus.com [81.174.245.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by vm6.ganeti.dyne.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DD1FF608FA for <500@bugs.devuan.org>; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:22:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from apollo.hindleynet ([192.168.1.3] helo=hindley.org.uk) by mx.hindley.org.uk with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1k14lQ-0001XH-4r; Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:22:12 +0100 Received: (nullmailer pid 5525 invoked by uid 1000); Thu, 30 Jul 2020 09:22:11 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2020 10:22:11 +0100 From: Mark Hindley To: Vernon Van Steenkist Cc: 500@bugs.devuan.org Subject: Re: [devuan-dev] bug#500: Package: usbmuxd calls systemd in its udev rules so it will never start in Devuan Message-ID: <20200730092211.GI3011@hindley.org.uk> References: <2a42584e-91e3-08ed-5276-da5de882ce31@gmail.com> <20200729090145.GE3011@hindley.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=SPF_PASS autolearn=disabled version=3.4.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.2 (2018-09-13) on tupac3.dyne.org Control: tags -1 debian Control: forwarded -1 https://bugs.debian.org/966403 Vernon, Thanks for this information which is very helpful. > It appears that not having sysvinit support in usbmuxd.rules is not a bug > but an intended feature. I would phrase this another way: it is a conscious decision, but it is still a bug. Non-systemd PID1 is still possible in Debian and so this behaviour will be evident on such a system. […] > I tested the above usbmuxd.rules file on my non-systemd Devuan and my > systemd Ubuntu 18.04 machine (I don't have any pure Debian machines) and the > above usbmuxd.rules worked on both machines (started usbmuxd when I > connected my iphone). Therefore, it is unclear to me why Debian removed > sysvinit usbmuxd.rules support in the next release of Debian > (usbmuxd_1.1.0-2+b2_i386.deb).  I find the CHANGELOG cryptic and I can't > make heads or tails of it. I agree, it isn't really mentioned at all. > So, Debian removing sysvinit support from Debian package usbmuxd which > supported both systemd and sysvinit is not a bug but a feature. A conscious decision, but still a bug on some Debian systems. > > If so, this patch should go to Debian as this bug will also be present on a > > Debian system that is not running systemd as PID1. > > Actually, I already (accidentally :) ) sent a bug report to Debian regarding > this a few days ago. However, based on the Debian usbmuxd package history of > purposefully removing sysvinit support from a usbmuxd.package that supported > both systemd and sysvinit, it appears that Debian is willfully moving away > from supporting sysvinit. Therefore I don't expect a response from Debian. > > How would you like me to proceed? I agree that the current actions of some Debian maintainers in actively removing non-systemd functionality is very unhelpful. My personal opinion is that by accepting such actions unchallenged we risk them increasing on a 'nobody noticed or complained so nobody cares' basis. If the current trickle increases substantially, Devuan's limited person-power could easily be overstretched. So I think that a bug that can be demonstrated on a non-systemd PID1 Debian system shold be fixed in Debian. I accept that maybe easier said than done: I have a number of Debian bugs open that are being ignored and I realise how frustrating it is. My suggestion is to retitle your Debian bug #966403 to mention non-systemd PID1 rather than Devuan and add a patch (and patch tag) to reintroduce legacy udev support. And then be persistent until you get a response. How do you feel about that? Best wishes Mark