Subject: bug#904: coreutils: key package depends on libsystemd

From: Andrew Bower <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 23:00:51 +0100

Source: coreutils
Version: 9.7-1
Severity: normal

Dear Devuan developers,

Since 9.7-1 and including 9.7-3, coreutils has depended on libsystemd.
This was added under pressure as part of https://bugs.debian.org/1080330
and discussions in debian-devel to enable 'who' to obtain current
longed-in user information from the seat manager, e.g. elogind, instead
of /run/utmp.

The Devuan project should consider if it wishes to fork this package to
avoid making every Excalibur installation necessarily include
libsystemd when it might not othewise have needed to do so

In #900 on Tue, Jul 29, 2025 at 11:10:45AM +0100, Mark Hindley wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 28, 2025 at 09:06:10PM +0100, Andrew Bower wrote:
> > > I believe the original impetus to remove libsystemd linkage from procps 
> > > was to reduce libsystemd infiltration into 'core' utilities. 
> > 
> > I am all in favour of that ambition. I don't think the key
> > building-block packages should depend on libsystemd, hence my
> > disappointment when coreutils recently gained the dependency (should we
> > be forking that?)
> 
> Hmmm, yes, conceivably.

Raising a bug...

Andrew

-- System Information:
Distributor ID: Devuan
Description:  Devuan GNU/Linux 6 (excalibur/ceres)
Release:  6
Codename: excalibur ceres
Architecture: x86_64

Kernel: Linux 6.12.37+deb13-amd64 (SMP w/4 CPU threads; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE=en_GB:en
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /usr/bin/dash
Init: runit (via /run/runit.stopit)
LSM: AppArmor: enabled

---

From: Mark Hindley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 16:19:43 +0100

Andrew,

> Raising a bug...

Thanks.

I am pretty conflicted here. To me the real downside is that Debian's coreutils
has over 450[1] bugs. If we fork the package, in effect we inherit
responsibility for fixing them. That is pretty unattractive with the current
person-power available.

Needs more thought....

Mark

[1]  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?repeatmerged=no&src=coreutils

---

From: Andreas Messer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:39:50 +0200

> responsibility for fixing them. That is pretty unattractive with the current

Would we really need to fix bugs which are also present in Debian package.
As long as they are not fixed there, we're not worse than the Debian
version.

For me this dependency is very questionable too.

cheers,
Andreas

-- 
gnuPG keyid: 8C2BAF51
fingerprint: 28EE 8438 E688 D992 3661 C753 90B3 BAAA 8C2B AF51

---

From: Mark Hindley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:03:28 +0100

> As long as they are not fixed there, we're not worse than the Debian

True, but it is a measure that the package is in poor state that so many bugs
exist and expected Debian fixes seem optimistic.

> For me this dependency is very questionable too.

Yes, and for me.

I am having a quick look how easy it might be. There is no Debian VCS
repository, which is also unhelpful. Having to resort to gbp-import-dsc.

Mark

---

From: Andreas Messer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 18:13:07 +0200

> repository, which is also unhelpful. Having to resort to gbp-import-dsc.

I volunteer to maintain this package, if needed. However, I can not 
guarantee a "reaction time" when a new version is available since it
happens that I'm always busy with many different things which might 
be more important to me at the time.

cheers,
Andreas

---

From: Mark Hindley <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:32:23 +0100

Andreas,

On Fri, Aug 15, 2025 at 06:13:07PM +0200, Andreas Messer wrote:
> I volunteer to maintain this package, if needed.

Thanks. I have assigned it to Devuan Developers so anybody is welcome to
contribute.

I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for
experimental.

Can you both test?

Thanks

Mark

---

From: "Devuan bug Tracking System" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:22:03 +0000

This is an automatic notification regarding your bug report
which was filed against the src:coreutils package:

#904: coreutils: key package depends on libsystemd

It has been closed by [email-masked].

Their explanation is attached below along with your original report.
If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a
better one in a separate message then please contact [email-masked] by
replying to this email.

-- 
904: https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=904
Devuan Bug Tracking System
Contact [email-masked] with problems

Subject: #904: fixed in src:coreutils version 9.7-3devuan1
From: [email-masked]
To: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:19:50 +0000

Version: 9.7-3devuan1

Source package coreutils (9.7-3devuan1) added to Devuan suite experimental.

This closes bug report 904.

Thanks

DAK managing the Devuan archive

Format: 1.8
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 17:14:27 +0100
Source: coreutils
Architecture: source
Version: 9.7-3devuan1
Distribution: experimental
Urgency: medium
Maintainer: Devuan Developers <[email-masked]>
Changed-By: Mark Hindley <[email-masked]>
Closes: 904
Changes:
 coreutils (9.7-3devuan1) experimental; urgency=medium
 .
   * Fork for Devuan.
   * Build without experimental upstream systemd support. (Closes: #904)
Checksums-Sha1:
 196a680f49f08d500a63b50664416010d44cdff9 1727 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.dsc
 6f0a0b3be0e5f9683548d35b438fa5adeda59b15 14892532 coreutils_9.7.orig.tar.gz
 0f4b42273cd0fc6889ef266d95b6976cd738b6ac 26936 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.debian.tar.xz
 de769245943baa7b8fbc32ca3776266c92cf863d 5594 coreutils_9.7-3devuan1_source.buildinfo
Checksums-Sha256:
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 e9c6d72a0399fecb7d234339d1789ed238e7d27b9bd4e9a980acb37a8f9417b3 14892532 coreutils_9.7.orig.tar.gz
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Files:
 43c768d7e9dc2026ea1fd22c678e541b 1727 utils required coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.dsc
 a0b3298ebe4ca8130a5f75091e12cf15 14892532 utils required coreutils_9.7.orig.tar.gz
 0f82e245efcf5097d705a61fe656a51b 26936 utils required coreutils_9.7-3devuan1.debian.tar.xz
 edc529424990b6174dedacc7663e217a 5594 utils required coreutils_9.7-3devuan1_source.buildinfo

Subject: coreutils: key package depends on libsystemd
From: Andrew Bower <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Cc: Mark Hindley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2025 23:00:51 +0100

Source: coreutils
Version: 9.7-1
Severity: normal

Dear Devuan developers,

Raising a bug...

Andrew

-- System Information:
Distributor ID: Devuan

---

From: Andreas Messer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 21:55:11 +0200

> I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for

Thanks! I will go for it during the weekend, planning to update to
excalibur anways.

cheers,
Andreas

---

From: Andrew Bower <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2025 22:08:52 +0100

> I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for

Thank you!

> Can you both test?

The new package generally works for me! (And the 'who' command behaves
as expected in the circumstances.)

Might be worth checking that it is actually possible to install a
libsystemd-free system now - I haven't done that.

I should say that the fact that I raised this bug doesn't mean I
definitely think this should happen - I think Devuan Developers have
more experience than I to make this call!

---

From: Mark Hindley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2025 19:13:42 +0100

> more experience than I to make this call!

I am happy to try. Certainly Debian's coreutils looks poorly maintained. I have
had a quick look through the open bugs. Many may not be current.

I will deal with a few easy d/control aspects and upload to unstable with a view
to including in excalibur if we don't run into new problems.

Mark

---

From: Andrew Bower <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2025 22:33:53 +0100

> had a quick look through the open bugs. Many may not be current.

Hmm, the recent bug creation rate looks suspiciously like someone was
trying to find bugs to 'prove' that the Rust version was better than the
GNU C version, or something like that. Perhaps a new test suite was
targetted at it. I'm not sure that it would be entirely fair to blame
the Debian packaging for that.

That's not to say the bug reports aren't fair and due attention.

> to including in excalibur if we don't run into new problems.

I must admit I didn't spot any packaging-specific issue because of the
amount of the above type!

---

From: Andreas Messer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2025 21:25:49 +0200

Hi Mark,

> I have a version that removes --enable-systemd that I will build for

I upgraded to excalibur today, worked flawlesly despite
mate-power-manager was uninstalled and not upgraded. (Just writing 
E-Mail from this machine). I have now installed coreutils 
9.7-3devuan2 and did not observe any issues so far.

cheers,
Andreas